I think these are intersting and important questions and should be discussed.I have few questions about payment to government servants and subsequent
increments including pay commissions.What is in it for the end customer : the citizen of this country, who pays for these pay hikes and is sick of the government servants?
- What is the out put of a government servant compared to a similarly paid person in private sector?
- Why do we need so many government servants?
- What value does a government servant provides to his/ her customer : the ordinary citizen on the street? Ask the customer and not the government servant.
- Will VI pay commission implementation improve the quality of services and governance provided by government servants?
- What is the present quality as perceived by a citizen?
- What is the targeted quality? What is the time frame and what are the trends to be observed?
- If the quality is not achieved with in the time frame, will the pays be rolled back and recoveries made from the pays of the government servants?
- Who will be held responsible and punished for the fall, if the quality improvement fails?
Tuesday, March 18, 2008
Interesting questions about efficiency
Lakhs of Government employees are waiting patiently for the final report of the Sixth Pay Commission as it's report is shortly going to handed over to the Government. Government employees are genuinely under paid and they are hoping for good increase in their wages. A reader of this blog has raised some quaetions about efficiency in the Government departments by commenting in an earlier post We must scrap Pay Commissions. The reader has send some interesting question, which I think should be discussed openly. Here is the comment send by reader :
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Time of raising these questions is not perfect. These questiones should have been raised when the pay commission was setup. Now we want only wage increase and we are waiting for commission report only.
ReplyDeleteAnswers....
ReplyDelete1) Output of government employees if we compare to private employees, it will be almost nil in the case of administration staff. But this is not in the case of like technologist, scientist etc.. they are most efficient and knowledgeable then private counterparts.
2)We do not need more.. now government too have working on less staff more work formula, in next few years we can see shortage of staff.
3)As customer i will says in some offices they are not best equipped and less knowledgeable but in some places there efficiencies are considerable excellent.
4)No, they are asking for more pay but they will not ready to improve their services.
5)I will rate below average.
6)This depend on ministry and their employees.
7)How can this happen??
8)Finance Minister including whole Ministry as each ministry headed by particular departments...
any more questions all are welcome...
the person who raised all the questions doesn't know government employees includes IAS officers who run the whole administration,IPS looks for internal security & law and order, IFS run country foreign policy, defence personal who protect country, scientists who are important for geopolitics of world ans so on. u can ignore railways, post and telegraphs networks.some inefficient people cant decide future of above peoples, moreover government employees only pay correct taxes not corporates, business houses , celebrity and so on . it is bad part to raise those question without knowing commitment of government employee.s
ReplyDeleteIt is really pathetic to see such an immature and generalised statements. First of all, you cant compare the government servant with private employee, because governemnt servant works with social obligation. How can one generalise that all government servants are not working efficiently. Now a days majority government servantsw are overloaded with work as the staff strnegth has already been reduced. In terms of quality service to public several government servants are working with dedication and sincerity. A scientist who is working for the government and contributing a lot for the country never thinks like a private materialist fellow that how much percent profit he will get. He rather enjoys more satisfaction while delivering goods to the public in government service. this is not the case with the private people, they only work for the company and their self. Hence it is illogical to compare govt servant with a private employee.
ReplyDeleteMore over, all government servants pay their income tax regularly and hence dont think that they are drawing salaries from tax paid by others only. As long as you people dont respect the sincerity and dedication of several government employees, this copuntry will never prosper. This country will be in hands of ICICI, CITI bank and Monsanto who will monopolise the nation's economy.
How much contribution is made by private sector to our country's primary sector i.e. agriculture? It is nothing.
Government servants only contributed wholeheartedly for the occupation of majority sections of this country.
Hence there is no point in raising doubt over the pay hike for the government servants. They should be given enough encouragement for country's prosperity.
P.S.B.Anand
In govt. departments, there are good as well as bad employees, in so far as their commitment to work is concerned. It is not that all employees are bad or all employees are good. The fact is that the bad employees are surviving at the cost of the good employees. This is seen in public sector enterprises also. So long our attitude does not change, nothing is going to happen. There are higher officers who work to their best themselves but do not want to rectify other bad employees, with this perception that those bad employees will be offended by these good employees.
ReplyDeleteAs the time for submission of the SPC report draws near, the interest shown by our dear blogger is itself quite interesting. When the Govt. servants are getting more and more impatient, the blogger keeps mum for over a fortnight and then suddenly he(she) breaks his(her)silence by putting before us an interesting ( what an interesting ??!!) question!I don 't know why it smells of some heartburn or something like that!! Though, I hope , it 's not like this!!!
ReplyDelete@Mr. Rakesh,
ReplyDeleteThe question is raised by one of the reader amonst you only. I have just made a blog post using reader's comment. you can read original comment also.
Manisha
pl. go follwowong place and see working enviornment and amenities in offices and compare it to the services they r providing:-
ReplyDelete1.> railway reservation counter
2.> bank counter
3.> post offices
4.> telephone offices.
after that u think reasonably and make an opinion. u have to aware the fact that in the govt. sector the proceess of recruitment is so refine that above average merit only got selected for the less paid post not suitable acoording to his merit. this sends a sense of frustration among them. along with that in govt. sector there is same yardstick 4 everyone. an efficient person is getting the same as compared to an inefficient one. this whole bunch creates a disinterest in their mind towards their works.namno
If you can wipe out corruption in government system, then the employees are good with a human heart. Have you gone to a District Collectors Office and seen the interaction among common man there? The employees are most people freindly minus corruption. They also over working to keep the system run.Then why balme the administrative employee? Why not others who try to interfare in administrative affairs ?
ReplyDeleteLets see what is in SPC.
i think the person who has raised these questions is frustated from the government departments. comments on the integrity of all government officers/officials is not correct.
ReplyDeleteMy dear friends, who is asking all these questions, must not be aware about the working of Govt., sector in detail and saying everything from outside without coming into the stream is very easy. If u hve the courage to fact it, then come into the feild and do something for the country. Blaming is easy, actually facing/working is difficult for the persons like as u. Try also to compare the amenities and benefits of Govt., and Private sector employees.
ReplyDelete1. Do you compare the workload of a government servant with a person in the private sector? Let me explain, the govt. companies are the largest service provider in terms of the number of people who are served by it. Just give a score of 1 to 10 to a person dealing with people and multiply it with the number of persons served by him. You will get to know the difference.
ReplyDelete2. Because your private sector will not venture out in so many non-profit fields, there are so many govt departments and therefore so many government servants. Moreover government cannot recruit people in peak season just to fire them when there is no workload like private companies. So you see so many idle people sometimes in the off season. But I would like to add that government sector is not seen as just another employer. It is also seen as a means to provide employment to unemployed. So you see that there is lesser mechanisation in government sector as compared to private sector. But as added by other readers of this blog, the trend is changing.
3. Will your private company venture out to spray mosquito repellent when there is malaria. Will they provide healthcare, telephone services, roads, water, and sanitation to the people in the village? Will you be ready to brave the challenge of living in a remote village as a doctor, engineer, and public servant at such a paltry salary? Do you know what keeps these people going? The sense of serving the country. If you see such an equitable development around its due to government servant otherwise only rich would have developed. To private sector the world is market and every person on the road is a piece of flesh attached to some bank notes, which they have to add to their kitty.
4. Those who work for the country will keep working, whether there is pay or not but those who feel frustrated with the paltry salary compared to the workload this will work as a lubricant. So naturally there will be improvement in the quality. Moreover, let me add that the fifth pay commission played an important role in the development of the private companies. If we get better salaries, we will spend in the market for better standard of life(read for better revenue to private companies)
5. I will say that some of us, who wrongly landed into government servant when they should be living in some leprosy camps where they would have received free food, are responsible for this perception. But don’t go by hearsay, think of the plight of a government servant who is earning much less than his counterpart in a private sector. The government service competitions are tough to crack. I am a CAT 94+ %ile scorer, XAT 95+ %ile scorer but I am satisfied that I am able to touch the lives of millions getting just 16000 a month. An IAS or any other government servant is no less meritorious than you folks. Government sector has to provide reservation to the less privileged people, which is necessary for the equitable development. Private Job is like one night stand, government job is like marriage so there will have to be some compromises.
6. There is always scope for improvement. Don’t go after private jobs (read money).We need more people who want to serve the country. You have got the right to information, vote for those who want to serve the county and not your relatives. Protest to get police reforms act and many other reforms acts implemented. Don’t vote for caste; don’t sit blaming system on the voting day. Go out and vote. Everything will improve.
7. The current trend is that if the quality is not improved and the department is saleable to private hands, the department is sold to private sector. Satisfied??
8. Its you because the representatives sitting at the centre are your people. It’s you, because you tend to buy government servants. A middle class salaried person can not escape tax but a rich businessman can do so by hook or crook. If you are caught on the wrong side of the law, it’s you who use your connection with some leader to get out of the situation and the honest government servant is transferred.
I just want to say that it is very easy to target Govt. employees for corruption. The question that should be asked is that who benefits most from the corruption? The obvious answer is that corporate/business world benefits the most, politicians come next. Bureaucrats, who are the smallest beneficiaries, get the focus because they are the softest targets.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is absolutely wrong to keep salaries low citing corruption. Low salaries only hurt the honest employees. Corrupt ones will even pay to work for the Govt.
I will reply each and every question raised by Ms. Manisha. But before that I would like to know about the Ms. Manisha i.e. about her profession,name of the company where she is working, etc. family background i.e. the profession of her father / grandfater etc. Please provide the deails....
ReplyDeleteYou think the govt. servants should work for free or they should be sacked and sent home so that the politicians elected by you will run the country?
ReplyDeleteAre MPs and MLAs working for free and to your satisfaction?
Let us address the basic question. What is corruption ?
ReplyDeleteA basic fact.
Only 3 crore indians pay Taxes .
By Indian Law .. both sides the one accepting bribe and also the one offereing are corrupt.
Private people have played with human nature of few Govt. and made them corrupt for their own benefits. Dont read me wrong i am not justifying Govt. employee who accepts bribe .. rather i am also putting the private fellow behind the bars who offered it .
A small story to narrate. few weeks back i was caught by Traffic cop for not wearing the seat belt. Two options were given to me .. either pay 150 Rs as Fine and get penality receipt .. or pay Rs 50 as bribe and get away(read as save Rs 100). I chose to pay Rs 150. But here i want to question people raising slogans against integrety of govt. employees. How many of you sould have agreed for the immediate loss of Rs 100. The corruption can only go if
1. The Govt. Employees are paid decent enough. ( An officer on trip to Mumbai is paid Rs 400 for Hotel stay, breakfast + lunch + dinner + Travel + Phone calls)
2. Private people stop blaming the system and take steps to forget personal immediate losses in favor of building corruption free india. Stop paying corrupt Govt. Employees .. things will get a bit delayed initially .. but the work will happen .. in the process you would take step to irredicate corruption. ( India is ranking 72 out of some 180 nations for corruption)
Regards.My Profile
A Govt. Employee
94% in Xth Class
92% in XII Class
84 % Distinction Holder in Engineering
75% Distinction Mtech from BITS PILANI
More than 10 international certifications or Brainbench.com types
MCP
MCSD
10 + years of working experience in various "great" Govt. Projects
a Scientist by Profession
A non Corrupt Gazzeted Officer
Drawing 26000 Rs per month (10+ years service)
HAve offers from private sectors of the scale of 10 Lacs per year (four time my current salary)
Probably stupid enough to serve the nation "India" for more 20 years.
at least 90 percent of govt servants are corroupt and they are getting more than what they deserve so all pay commision should be scrapped. why can'tn you observe yourself a govt servant with pay scale of 6500--- lives in bunglows. go and see in gomti nagar lucknow.
ReplyDelete1. we pay less to the protector of the law, what will he do for a better living, which he sees being flaunted by corporates--- he will become corrupt. Pay him sufficient he will protect every one . This will be true in case of 90% of the public servants.
ReplyDelete2. Corporates, business people make govt servants corrupt to get petty benefits by hook or crook. They are more dangerous than inefficient govt. employees.
3. Those who run business units, corporate offices and do trasactions worth 10 or 20 crores get 2-3 lakh per month. Where as those who run deparments, districts, mandals and oversee/ supervise transactions worth 50 to 100 crores get what 25000 to 50000 per month. What a shame?
4. The person who has posed these questions should know, had the defence forces/para military forces been not customer oriented,he/she would have been cooling his heels in Pakistani/ Chineese/ Bangladeshi Jails or been enjoying the hospitality of Taliban
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt is very easy to crticize and make target of the Government Servants. It should not be forgotten that they enter the government service through tough open competition and the the best. Their contribution to the society is indirect and they are the only entity who pay their income tax honestly directly at source. They contribute to the policy making of the Government. Some exceptions may be their on negative side but it is always everywhere whether it be government, public or private sector. Corruption is being enticed by the influential part of the society who only want short cut to get the work done and rules molded as per their convenience and when the Government servants are not paid well they are compelled to get into the trap of corruption set by those people. But the percentage on the whole may be very small.
It is painful to observe that even when a single pie is due tothem, it is given wide publicity negatively, e.g. Dearness Allowance is given to protect form the rising inflation but by giving wide publicity in the press, the original idea of protection is defeated and the business community inthe open market increase the prices and its real motive of protecting from rising prices is defeated. Government Servants at all levels should be given clear duties and responsibilities delegated with powers suitably to act on the spot with the circumstances for quick positive results without waiting for directions from their seniors in routine cases. Press starts of talking burden on exchequer when anything is due to them which is not correct. progression in the career with strong financial position to combat against corruption with dedication for the welfare of the society would help in the long way. Honesty, dedication and integrity of the majority of the government servants should not invariably be contested.
In my view tax limits raised in this year's budget will become redudant in view of the pay raise after the Pay Commission's report and the category who were paying 10% tax may have to shell 20%. Hence the review of the classification of tax - slabs may required and should be considered for those falling in 1.50 Lakh to 3.00 lakh, it should be raised to 4.00 lakh at least.
Working for government is an honour. You cannot compare private employees with government counterparts. There's right to information (RTI), and so if someone feels that works are not done optimally by government employees, then use the RTI. Private organizations and their organizations work mostly for profit and there are no pay commissions either. A government employee has to wait for 10 years + agitate against the government right from setting up the commission, then to ask the government to implement it. Due to lower pay packages skilled human resources refrain from govt. jobs. But some do join the services even after lay pay packages. Compare the salary of a software programmer (Basic of Rs. 8,000/-) in govt. and in private ? A Private employee may get more than 80,000 per month. See how the government human resources can be strengthened both in terms of skill and efficieny rather than pointing out what salary they earn for the well being of their families.
ReplyDeletePerformance can be fastly improved, if we can provide
ReplyDelete1. latest gadgets (Laptop, Mobile with internet)
2. Full computerization, Digital Signature, Web enabled services
2. Skill enhancement permission to Gov Employees easily, NOC ( No Objection Certificate ) to be given easily, So that he can swich his job if he is underpaid.
3. Seniority, hierarchy, rules are based on performance,
Fake interview system, CR ( Confidential Report) to be scrapped so that flattery game to be omitted.
Now I ask how can a employee perform when senior are not listening his need.
I am a government servent, and I feel corruption etc. and administrative persons really don't like a good system.
These are ridiculous questions to ask. By the same yardstick may I ask what is the contribution of a private sector employee towards society? Everyone works to support themselves anfd their families. Government departments are understaffed and work load is heavy. You cannot say that someone working in the IT sector deserves lakhs as a salary and comeone in govt service a few thousand rupees. IT companies have all tax exemptions. So where is their contribution towards nation building? Every working person, be it private or public has a role to play. If Govt servants do not work, will there be development and project implementations? Will there be efficient tax collection? No, because everyone evades taxes. I am sure a lot of bloggers here too who are against salary hike to Govt Employees themselves are tax evaders. So clean your own house first and then point out at the dirt in someone elses house.
ReplyDeleteQuestions raised itself confirms that how an immatured citizen he/she is. One of the questions is that 'Why we need so many governmen employees". He/She must know that thousands of trains are run daily by government employees. Thousands of post offices in remote areas are manned by government employees only. Due to government employees' effort, this year's direct tax collection raised 42% from previous year's. 55 lakhs government employees run this country of multilingual, multi-religious 100 crores people. Central government employees are also citizens of this country. Yes, ofcourse, there are corrupt people. But that does entitle one to say that all are corrupt. In private sector, every effort is to maximise its profit rather than thinking about society. But every government employee has ones social obligation and equally answerable under various laws like Right to Information Act.
ReplyDeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteThe issues raised by some bloggers who feels that pay commissions should be banned may be "Pertinent but very Immature" because the blogger has not analysed the issue in detail. If he/she had, it would have been clear that he/ she is as much responsible for the malaise affecting our country as any one else. I have some questions for every one to ponder:-
(a) Who elects those illiterate and selfish vote block centric politicians who put impediments in everything that a civil employee at decision making level tries to do? We all, including those not in Govt Jobs.
(b) Who tries to use any possible means to wriggle out of a tricky situation by paying bribe or using contacts to influence a civil servant? We all, including those not in Govt jobs.
(c) Who is capable of running the various important govt agencies like,
(i) Post and Telegraph
(ii) Railways
(iii) Airports
(iv) Defence Services
(v) Rural Health Services
(vi) Road Transport
______and so on and so forth
No, the Tatas and the Birlas and the Ambanis are not doing it and would not do anything till it gives them the green bucks to fill their coffers i.e, profits. The private sector is making profits because they are working only in sectors where people can afford to give them profits. Who would like to work in the sectors and remotely located places where the populace doesn't have two morsels to eat? Their projects go to the rural areas only when the Govt. gives them Tax Holidays etc.
Rather than being responsible and sharing the concern for the basic reasons for poverty and thus the resting inefficiency that affects our country i.e, Population Explosion and Illiteracy, these so called pseudo nationalists want to slam everything Indian. "Am I proud of this lopsided perception"? NO.
I am a nationalist and in the Armed Forces of this country and love everything about this country. I have been to nearly every nook and corner of this country; unlike these private job seekers who go only on organised treks and see the country though the tinted glasse of the tour operaters. If, you guys think you can run the country better the corporate way, please come ahead and take over the responsibility alongf with it's assets and LIABILITIES.
JAI HIND
dear manisha, tell me what do you know about govt. functioning. u r only fuming about the general maladies either faced by u or read by u in papers or reported by friends. have u ever tried to know how and in what govt. servants works or tries to meagrise his rations? have u ever given a thought to the fact that income tax assessments have lead to massive and repeated unearthing of tax frauds perpretated by our esteemed private players and big banks, including multinational banks? No. first lay the blame on yourselves for encouraging corruption so that the black characters within you are removed. and do not bank on the theory that u people make black money to pay govt. officers. no my dear. the private corporates and entreprenuers do it to losen themselves from tax implications and enjoy / self gratify with unaccounted wealth earned from general public. the black money with these private players and their political patronages is far more than the budgets of many countries stringed together. please note that the constitution provides for social and economic equilibrium so that the general public gets its dues and the private players are themselves to blame for the present disequilibrium. the tax laws are here to justify the constitutional promises to the general public and citizens of India and not your misconceptions. if u dont agree u may feel free to migrate outside India to a country where tax and other freedoms suit you and your knowledge. and now please dont think about wiping out income tax from the face of india without and constructive, practical and well researched act
ReplyDeleteregards
Sachin
Good Questions. Here are my views. The end customer is citizen of India, who has for long criticized Governmnet and its employees for poor performance of country. Now everybody talks about rapid stride India has taken, is it not time to appreciate Government employees contribution in this progress. All pvt. sector employees want share of growth of their companies than whats wrong if Govt. employees get some part of their contribution. The outputt of a govt. servant vis-a-vis a pvt. sector employee is uncomparable. why in pvt. sector one does work for personal gains and outsmart eachother, here employees work even when they know they wont be rewarded for extra work. By work of pvt, employee a prfit motivated company is benefited but a govt. employee contributes to success of country. True we dont need that many govt. servants as only 40% actually work. But this may be due to social responsibility of the govt. Pay hikes may not improve quality of service but it might improve quality of life of a large segment of indian people, and they thoroughly deserve better life, as they are no less educated or intelligent than others. Those who fail govt. job exams go to pvt. sector, get fat pay checks and brag about quantum of work they do and those who pass stay in govt. to listen to false accusations. Yes, accountability and transparency are must but in garb of their being not available denying those who run govt. will also be unjustified. There are 40% govt. servants who run 100% of govt. and it is not true they are only at top posts. they are spread across all posts and departments, but these unsung heroes get brickbats because of others who dont work, its time either they are identified and rewarded separately. But punishing them with others can be no justice. Also on issue of corruption, a private person pays Rs 10 to a govt. servant to have benefit of Rs. 100, so an employee is corrupt by Rs 10 while the private person (the citizen of India) is looting excheuqer of India by Rs 90 and helping in breeding corruption.
ReplyDeleteIt is sad that every govt employee is categorised as CORRUPT. In case there is no giver there is no taker. RTI and other such provisions ensure its elimination provided the common man enforced them. But, it is the same common man wants corruption to shortcut the system. Why blame one portion of the system.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, is the govt staff not an indian citizen. Does he not go to the same shop frequented by pampared pvt sector emploee.
Does the pvt sector employee ever prepares himself to serve in the difficult areas of the country, with hardly any facility without his children and family.
There are instances of pvt sector employee seeking change of job for having been transferred to differnt location in the same city.
Do you call this commitment.
For god sake, do not single out one segment of the same society but address the issue of corruption holistically.
Is it not the same govt employee who ensures revenue to the govt for roads, hygine, sanitation, security of the country, property, advances in science by working late hours etc. The pvt sector, some of whom have wealth equal to the budget of the country, do not invest in tech advances/research in high investment areas. The task is undertaken by the selfless govt employee for paultry salary with a foolish belief that countrymen respects him. This blog confirms my statement. Is Manisha always ensured that she was never corrupt. Corruption encompasses thoughts, actions, and not only bribery.
It is the common citizen who has to enforce anti corruption and merely blame govt employee and deprive salaries communsurate to the pvt sector. If the pvt salaries were not to raise, there would be no need for any revision of govt salaries since price of commodities will be stable. Is media/citizen bothered. Why ask foolish questions in the blog
your questions are good. answer these questions.
ReplyDelete1. does the govt departments are built on the basis of performance.
2. see the composition,recrutment, promotions, pay package. do you see any scope for perofrmance identification n encouragement.
3. when u dont bother and pay for performance, experience, sincerity, how can u ask such questions. If u dont pay reasonably good, the departs will become worse as govt will fail to attract new talent and forego existing good employees.
I would like to ask all these people hollering against the pay commission whether they would be willing to take our job (I am in the defence,) protecting YOUR country, being posted at the border, risking YOUR life every day for a paltry 8000 Rs/month?
ReplyDeleteIndia is not 'your' but OUR country.
ReplyDeleteWho created layers and layers in government machinery. The British created this machinery to serve their ends of colonism. But should not this have been stopped when the freedom was achieved. Instead we continued with our old system knowing very well that it is corrupt and out dated system.
ReplyDeleteThe need of the hour is to revamp each and every government department with leat no of hierarcy.
who are you give your account first
ReplyDeleteThe person who raised the questions is ignorant about the government set up it seems. Ofcourse she doesn't know that the government runs the whole country's administration and also responsible for internal security & law and order. For example "The missile Man of India" and our former President has been put up in Government service at various positions and is behind our nuclear power. Like wise I can quote several examples. But all these private sectors.. be it Anil Ambani or Birla, they work for filling their pockets. Hence for Heaven's sake don't blame the govt employees in toto. If there is a flood in your area, the govt. only will come to rehabilitate or restore through the bueraucrats and not the private firms. Hence there is no question about keeping their pay at par with the private sector.
ReplyDeleteI have only one comment to make-Do private employees give their lives to the nation as our Jawans do? Have you heard of one single private employee who has stood guarding our borders?
ReplyDeleteIt just seems we are not at all copncerned about coming out with the solution.Trying to hide the evident(there is no smoke without fire)inefficiency in the government sector by pointing at the lack of the social responsibilities of the corporates will do this country no good.and whoever thinks so needs to be briefed about the contribution of Tatas who have touched almost all the aspects of societal development and be allowed to compare it with the work done by any single agency from the government sector.This was just to establish that one doesnot become socially dutiful merely by joining the govt sector or irresponsible as he joins the corporate field.Though salary hikes would be a very helpful step in causing the conversion of preferences(till now) of the employees into convictions,we need to understand that regular inspection of the individuals efficiency and the distribution of carrots and sticks would be equally indespensible if we want to shed off the "sarkari hai" image which the common man has learnt to useto avoid being surprised at the inefficiency.
ReplyDelete