Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Navy chief and chairman of Chiefs of Staff Committee, has cautioned the government that the relationship between the two sits on a tinderbox and infighting would "seriously jeopardise" operations.
The revised report has altered the existing parity between the armed forces and Central Paramilitary Forces (CPMF)/Group A services and IAS by retaining lieutenant colonels in a lower pay band than their paramilitary and civilian counterparts. Pay scales have tradition- ally determined status among government officials.
Mehta told the PMO that ascendancy gained by paramilitary would "seriously hamper command and control functions between the army and the Border Security Force/CPMF".
Success of military operations hinge on the efficiency of command and control. After briefing the PM on "core issues" last week, Mehta met finance minister P. Chidambaram and MoS in the PMO Prithviraj Chauhan on Tuesday Military sources said Mehta has told the PMO that perks of higher status given to CPMF/civilian officers, and denied to equally placed service officers, would result in despondency among them. "A CPMF officer whose pay parity was below a lieutenant colonel in the 4th and 5th pay panel reports has been elevated to the pay scale of a Colonel. This will not be acceptable to either the lieutenant colonel or the Colonel," a senior army officer told HT.
Another "serious error" pointed out by Mehta includes exclusion of lieutenant generals and equivalent from the Higher Administrative Grade pay band. Only army commanders and DGPs and equivalent figure in this grade.
He has also sought the intervention of the PMO to provide the HAG+ pay band for lieutenant generals and equivalent holding posts of principal staff officers, director general and controllers in the services.
Points of Friction
- Revised pay panel report has altered existing parity by retaining lieutenant colonels in a lower pay band than their paramilitary counterparts
- Perks of higher status given to CPMF/civilian officers, not to equally placed service officers
well again the same misinformation campaign. First through AV Singh committee report they got their Lt Col to time scale i.e . no selection /no drop out after 13 years service/11 years for technical entry.No body talking of this event happened between 5 pc and 6 pc.How one can equate a time scale post with a selection post
ReplyDeletegreat how well this misinformation campaign is being run
Jai Hind
you just conduct a interview and pass every body in that and call it DPC. so you say has become selection grade officer.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 12:31 AM
ReplyDeletePl educate the readers of this blog in" the latest "so called selection grade of NFSG" for AIS cadre, what were the total No of officers considered, how many "selected" and how many rejected? Simple?
BTW there are scores of majors who have NOT automatically become Lt Cols after 13 years, 'cos they have not passed promotion exam Part B or Part D, not only this they will eventually be sent home!!
And yes no AIS "rejectee" will be sent home !!
Don't try to fool the people here by advancing your flimsy arguments.
A SELECTION PROCESS HAS NO MEANING IF ALL ARE SELECTED.ON THE CONTRARY IN ARMED FORCES PROMOTION IS DENIED EVEN IF THE DESIRED MEDICAL STANDARDS ARE NOT MET AND CERTAIN PROMOTION RELATED COURSES ARE NOT CLEARED EVEN AT LOWER RANKS
ReplyDeletesend Mr Kartikey to MOMPONG fr a years attachment with the Army to get his bearings right... bugger has spent to much good time within his office and family...
ReplyDeleteInjustice to Group ’C’ & ‘B ‘ Govt. employees in the 6th Pay Commission
ReplyDeleteI may point out discrepancy in the Pay Commission finally accepted by the Govt. In the report, there is huge increase in upper level while lower level gets meager increase.
02. As all knows, around 95% Govt. employees are in Group ‘D’.’C’ & ‘B ‘. However, there increase is very modest. All these would get basic pay [ pay in pay band + Grade pay] less than Rs. 20,000. Whereas, Directors and above would get at least Rs. 46,100/-. It may be added here where all Group ‘D’.’C’ & ‘B ‘ Govt. employees are getting pay in the pay band by multiplying 1.86 factor whereas Directors and above level officers would get by multiplying 2.40-2.61. This is almost more than 10 years benefit / increment at one go for them. It is basic principle that pay should be multiplied by almost the same for all Govt. employees. Why the Govt. is giving benefits of more than 10 additional increments to Directors and above level officer. Is it not hand and glove of the senior bureaucracy who distributes benefits heavily to their kith and kin cadre whereas lower level staff got almost nothing in compared to that?
03. It is decided fact that lower level staff gets some financial benefits due to promotion. However, in the present report, only one increment is granted on promotion. It is highly derogatory recommendations which give only pecuniary benefits for remaining service period for all Group ‘D’.’C’ & ‘B ‘ Govt. employees. Needless to add, higher officer have already got fixed their pay in such a high level and got additional increment without any proper justification, that they need not to bother in this regard.
04. One eye-wash is made to most of the Group ’C’ & ‘B ‘ Govt. employees whose initial basic pay lies between 5000 to 8000. Most of the cases, pay commission recommended for up-gradation in the next pay-scale for example employees getting salary in Rs. 6500-200-13500 would get Rs. 7450-225-11500 etc. . However, their pay fixation would be made on the basis of pay drawn as on 1.1.2006. for example, in spite of upgradation to the pay scale of Rs. 7450-225-11500, if a Govt. employee is drawing Rs. 6900/-, they would get only 6900 x 1.86 = Rs. 12834/- and not even minimum of the prescribed pay scale 7450 x 1.86 = 13857/-. It is huge eye-wash made by the pay commission. Compare it this one a officer getting Rs. 18400/- would get Rs. 44700/- as its pay in the pay band i.e., multiplication of 2.42. Gr. ‘A’ officer getting benefits of more than 10 years /increment in the fixation whereas Gr. ’C’ & ‘B ‘ would get loss of around 3-4 years /increment in the fixation. Is not act of willful trying to sabotage career of lower staff and getting additional shine to Gr. 'A' service?
Here is simple pay fixation
For Gr. B,C & D staff: Existing basic pay x 1.86 or less = new pay
For Gr. A officer: Existing basic pay x 2.4 or more = new pay
Pay Commission calculator at
http://www.MegaShare.com/483687
Where is the difference in Pay Band? A Lt Col rank in Army is equivalent to a 2I/C rank in paramilitary. Both are in PB-3. What a lie!!
ReplyDeleteAre they considering a Lt Col equivalent to a Commandant in paramilitary!!
Have pity, commandants put in at least 25 years of service in the paramilitary while Lt Cols come by time scale in 11/13 years.
Civilians/Babus will never ever understand Defence Force! They only need us to bail them out of the goof ups like poor administration during Bihar floods etc , etc.. what we need is strong Generals and seperate pay commission.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 4:04 PM
ReplyDeletePl stop blatant disinformation. See the career profile/prospectus of CRPF officers (from http://www.crpf.nic.in):-
Dy. Commandant. 6 years as Asstt. Commandnat.
Second-In-Command 5 years as Dy.Commandant (with total ‘A’ service).
Commandant 4 years as Second-In-Command (with 15 years Group ‘A’ service)
Addl. DIGP 3 years as Commandant (Total 18 years Group Retirement age of 60 yrs.‘A’service)
DIGP 2 years as Addl.DIGP (with 20 years Group ‘A’ service)
IGP 4 years as DIG (24 years Group ‘A’ service)
Comdts have 15 years service, so pl stop lying they have 25 years of service !!
And have no doubts, only DIG is above Lt Col. See the warrants of precedence!!
This Warrant of Precedence is compiled from a joint consideration of the existing Central Warrant of Precedence (which is till the rank of Major General) and Warrant of Precedence– 1937, as per Ministry of Home Affairs' directions contained in Letter No 12/11/99-Pub II dated 26 Dec 1966, the validity of which has been confirmed by Letter No 12/1/2007-Public dated 14 Aug 2007. The MHA has confirmed in 2007 that the Old Warrant of Precedence shall be taken as a guide to determine ranks below the ones mentioned in the current WoP.
• Only the posts which are existing and relevant in the present scenario have been mentioned in this Warrant of Precedence. Military ranks have been highlighted.
1. HE The President of India
2. HE The Vice President of India
3. Prime Minister
4. Governors of States within their respective States
5. Former Presidents
5A. Deputy Prime Minister
6. Chief Justice of India/ Speaker of Lok Sabha
7. Cabinet Ministers of the Union/ CMs within their States / Former PMs
7A. Holders of Bharat Ratna Decoration
8. Ambassadors Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary and High Commissioners of Commonwealth Countries/ CMs outside their States / Governors outside their States
9. Judges of the Supreme Court
9A. Chief Election Commissioner/ Comptroller & Auditor General of India
10. Deputy Chairman Rajya Sabha/ Deputy CMs of States/ Deputy Speaker Lok Sabha/ Members Planning Commission/ Ministers of State of the Union
11. Attorney General of India/ Cabinet Secretary/ Lieutenant Governors within their UTs
12. Chiefs of Army, Air and Naval Staff
13. Envoys Extraordinary and Ministers Plenipotentiary accredited to India
14. Chairmen and Speakers of State Legislatures within their States / Chief Justices of High Courts within their jurisdictions
15. Cabinet Ministers of States within their States/ CMs of UTs within their UTs/ Deputy Union Ministers
16. Officiating Chiefs of Army, Air and Naval Staff of the rank of Lt Gen or equivalent
17. Chairman CAT/ Chairman Minorities Commission/ Chairman SC & ST Commission/ Chairman UPSC/ Chief Justices outside their jurisdiction/ Puisne Judges of High Court within their jurisdictions
18. Cabinet Ministers of States outside their States/ Ministers of State in States within their States/ Chairmen and Speakers of State Legislatures outside their States
19. Chief Commissioners of UTs not having a Council of Ministers within their UTs/ Deputy Ministers in States within their States
20. Deputy Chairmen and Deputy Speakers of State Legislatures outside their States/ Minister of State in States outside their States/ Puisne Judges of High Courts outside their jurisdictions.
21. Members of Parliament
22. Deputy Ministers in State outside their States
23. Army Commanders (GsOC-in-C)/ VCOAS and equivalent in other services/ Chief Secretaries to States within their States/ Members of Minority Commission / Secretaries to Govt of India/ Secretary to President/ Secretary to PM/ Secretary Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha/ Solicitor General
24. Officers of the rank of Lieutenant General or equivalent
25. Additional Secretaries to Govt of India/ Addl Solicitor General / Advocate Generals of States/ Chairman Tariff Commission/ Chief Secretaries outside their States/ Director CBI/ DG BSF/ DG CRPF/ Director IB/ Lt Governors outside their UTs/ Members UPSC/ PSOs of Armed Forces of the rank of Major General and equivalent
26. Officers of the rank of Major General and equivalent / Joint Secretary to Govt of India
27. Vice Chancellors of Universities
28. Commissioners of Divisions within their respective charges
29. Brigade Commanders within their respective Charges
30. Brigadiers/ Inspector General of Forests/ Inspectors General of Police
31. Commissioners of Divisions outside their charges
32. Secretaries to State Governments
33. Colonels/ Accountants General/ Chief Conservator of Forests/ Chief Engineers/ Inspectors General of Prisons/ Members of ICS (now known as IAS) and Indian Political Service (now Indian Foreign Service) with 23 years standing
34. Controller Military Accounts and Pensions (now CDA)
35. Commissioners of Income Tax/ Deputy Commissioners within their districts
36. District and Session Judges within their charges
37. DIG of Police
38. Lieutenant Colonels/ Conservators of Forests/ IAS and Foreign Service officers with 18 years standing/ Superintending Engineers
39. Excise Commissioners/ Registrar of Co-operative Societies
40. Deputy Commissioners of Districts / District and Sessions Judges / Superintendents of Police of Districts within their charges (also now known with variable nomenclature as DCP/ SSP in certain States)
41. DIG of Prisons/ Officers of other Class I Services and Provincial Services with 20 years standing
42. Majors/ IAS and Foreign Service officers with 12 years service/ SPs and DCPs with 15 to 20 years service
43. Asst Commissioners of Income Tax/ Officers of Class I and Provincial Services with 10 years standing
44. Divisional Engineers/ Divisional Forest Officers/ Executive Engineers/ Superintendents of Central Jails
PS:- When you dont know about anything, sanity says its best to keep mum !! Otherwise you run the risk of making a fool of yourself.
Dear harry,
ReplyDeleteDon't create wrong impression by putting warrant of precedence of the year 1966 and compare them with todays service criteria of appointment. Tell me how many years of service was required to become a lt col and a dig respectively in 1966 and then draw a parallel? People have gone mad in their own ulterior motives in this blog and just making comparisions which suites to them.
@ Anonymous
ReplyDeletepl read the following:-
Warrant of Precedence is compiled from a joint consideration of the existing Central Warrant of Precedence (which is till the rank of Major General) and Warrant of Precedence– 1937, as per Ministry of Home Affairs' directions contained in Letter No 12/11/99-Pub II dated 26 Dec 1966, the validity of which has been confirmed by Letter No 12/1/2007-Public dated 14 Aug 2007. The MHA has confirmed in 2007 that the Old Warrant of Precedence shall be taken as a guide to determine ranks mentioned in the current WoP.
PS: Why dont you come out of your anonymity and make an id(if you don't have one already!)
Before claiming wrong parity of the rank of Lt. Col. vis-a-vis paramilitary ranks, ask a jawan what stars are worn by the Lt. Col.
ReplyDeleteBy any means a Lt. Col. (of 11/13 years service) cannot be equated to the Commandant of at least 25 years of service.
The silence of paramilitary officers and men does not mean they are fools. They will certainly approach the Courts if army officers claim wrong parity vis-a-vis paramilitary ranks.
Few army bloggers cannot change the rank structure and parity of entire Forces!!
So Harry thinks paramilitary officers become Commandants in 15 years service!! In 15 years they do not even become the equivalent of Lt. Col. (called 2I/C in paramilitary) whereas army officers have time scale assuring donkeys of the Lt.Col. rank in 11/13 years.
ReplyDeleteThe army bloggers are cribbing whereas the paramilitary officers should have strong reasons to crib. It is the just the opposite case!!
You are insulting the service of the paramilitary seniors.
For new updates of Pay commission and UGC pay review
ReplyDeleteVisit: www.railwayemployee.blogspot.com
@ Anonymous 11:22 AM
ReplyDelete1. Buddy its NOT for me to think that paramilitary officers become Commandants in 15 years, pl see the official CRPF website from where I quoted. Pl see for urself http://www.crpf.nic.in/crp_f.htm
2. As U are probably aware that AIS cadre had undergone large scale upgradation in the past upsetting the Rank parity, which was then existing, with Armed Forces. Let me remind U, some time back SP used to wear rank badges of a Major, now a days all erstwhile SPs have become SSPs and flaunt rank badges of Col rank. And SP rank is generally given to promotees! Does that, by ur logic, imply that they have overnight become equal to Col with 20 + 1 (for trg)=21 years grind behind him, whereas these people have just about 9-12 years of service !! So quoting equivalence based on what is worn on the shoulder is quite meaningless!
3 And let me tell U, all majors DO NOT automatically become Lt Cols after 13+1 years as U and most other non service bloggers choose to think. They have to clear 2 promotion exams viz. Part B and Part D and remain medically fit. So there is a level of filteration. And there are scores of officers who have not cleared either Part B or Part D exams they not only dont make it to Lt Col but also loose seniority and are eventually sent home if they fail to clear these exams by 18 years ('cos govt does not want their pension liability by keeping them for 20 years.)And such cases are not a rarity.
4. And if paramilitary cadre officers loose out because of IPS cadre lording over them , military can hardly be blamed for that buddy!
PS: Choosing to call brother officers (so what if there is a tinge of envy !) "donkeys" is unwise and in bad taste!
Brit armed forces might face mass “walkouts” over poor pays: Report
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by Sahil Nagpal on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 11:49. General News London
London, Sept 17 : A serious crisis looms large over British defence forces as there is a possibility of a mass walkout due to massive under-funding and poor pay scales, as much of the defence budget is being spent on forces deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, a report titled “Overcoming The Defence Crisis” backed by former military chiefs has warned.
It said that all the three major political parties must unite to back the “woefully under-funded” forces whose budget “urgently needs to be increased” from the current 34 billion to 50 billion dollars over the next three years.
The mass resignations might paralyze the British defence forces, the report said and added that a “huge burden” has been placed on the forces with more than 12,000 troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan that has led to an immense strain on both troops and equipment.
“The national interest requires the full-hearted engagement of Government and Opposition to rehabilitate our Armed Forces and repair our defences. Now is no longer the time for party politics,” The Telegraph quoted Winston Churchill, the UKNDA’’s president and grandson of the wartime leader, as saying.
He warned that the Forces were “in crisis” with funding the lowest since 1930s when “inadequate defence provision paved the way directly to world war”.
The report highlights as a serious worry over the continued drain of personnel which saw 20,000 troops resign last year fed up with poor pay, time away from families and inadequate accommodation. “Remedial action can no longer be delayed without running the unacceptable risk of mass retirements from the widely demoralised Armed Forces,” said the report compiled by former generals, admirals and academics.
It suggested that in order to reverse the “unacceptable threat of major resignations” and restore morale the Services need a rapid improvement in pay, kit and manpower. “The serious inadequacy of Britain’’s current and planned defence provision is undeniable,” the 20 page report said. (ANI)
It is unfortunate that the service chiefs have gone to the extent of telling utter lies that the 6th pay commission has downgraded the rank of the LtCol vis a vis Civilian officers. The Lt Col is always till now has been equated with JAG/JointDirector/ who are in the pay scale of 12000-16500. The 6th pay commission has not made any anomaly. There is clear cut letter of MOD that the rank pay should not be taken for determining the status. Further in 5th PC the Brigadiar's Basic Pay is 16700/= the Rank Pay is 2400 thus adding both the Brigadiar's basic pay is 19100/- whereas the Major General gets only the Basic pay 18400 and no Rank pay. Therefore the services should claim the Brigadiar as Senior officer than Major General since argument is based who draws more i.e the Lt Col's pay (13500+1600=5100) the Director's pay (14300/)based on the basic pay. The services should correct this anomaly before claiming status equalent with civilian counterparts. Therefore it is requested that the service cheiefs should refrain from making such false claims.
ReplyDelete1. It is pointed out the defense services officers of all the three services have been scandalously, shamefully and outrageously desecrated, disgraced, dishonored, besmirched and degraded by the Central Govt. and the bureaucrats who, always keep in mind their personal interest foremost, and dictate the Ministers to take decisions the way they want.
ReplyDelete2. The public opinion is that this seems to be the first Govt., which is completely insensitive to the defense persons. This fact can be seen from the fact that none of the earlier Govts. neglected them as it has been done this time, especially while notifying the 6th Pay Commission Report. Past records of earlier pay commissions may be checked, where you will find Defense Services officers were given better pay, and allowances then all the Civil Services and Para Military Forces officers. Rather, this is the first time, when Civil Services, Para Military Forces officers and many others holding equivalent and/or even lower posts of their counter parts in defense services are given higher pay and allowance/Grade Pay, hence, the status of almost all the Defense Services officers is lowered, degraded and tarnished. It has happened during the regime of the present Central Govt.,
3. It is needless to emphasize that the financial benefit to the defense officers definitely has to be kept in mind. This is emphatically important considering their service conditions and retirement age, which are known to the whole country. However, their prestige, dignity and honor is rather that of more importance, which must not be destroyed, degraded and tarnished as has been done in the notified 6th Pay Commission Report. This statement is evident from the fact the seniority and status of all the Govt. Employees will be determined by the Grade Pay of all the officials in accordance with the 6th pay commission report.
4. Nevertheless, the three Chiefs of Defense Services have first time picked up some courage to point out the degradation with vivid disparities in Gde. Pay of defense officers of the rank of Lt. Cols., Lt. Gens. and equivalent ranks of all three services.
5. Nonetheless, it is noticed that no senior officers of either services or even the 6th Pay Commission Military Cell seem to have carefully gone through the full Pay Commission report and notifications. With due apology, I wish to mention that there are still number of more worst disparities in the cases of officers of the ranks of Majors, captains and Lieutenants, and equivalent ranks of all three services including trainees.
6. You may kindly see that the pre-revised scales of pay of civil services officers falling in S-21, S-22, and S-23 were much less the pay scale of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services. In accordance with the notifications, the Govt. has given Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/- to Civilian Officers of the categories mentioned ibid, but all officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
7. In addition, in the cases of Para Military Services, the Chief Nursing Officers, the Principals of schools, Education Officers, Assistant Directors and Managers, whose pre-revised scales were 10000-15200; all of them have now been given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-. Whereas, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing much higher pay scale, have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
8. The degradation of Defense Services Officers does not end here itself. If you peruse the VI CPC report and notifications thereto, you will see, the ‘Vice Principal Grade I’ and Post Graduate Teacher Grade I of schools whose pre-revised scale was 8000-13200 are now given the Grade Pay of Rs. 6600/-, where as, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing pay scale of more than 12000, are also now been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only. In addition, look into the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, whose pre-revised pay was much higher than the officials mentioned above are given Grade Pay of 6100/- only. Likewise, the pre-revised pay scale of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services was starting from Rs 8250/ which is more than these officials, where as the Grade Pay of all these officials is Rs. 6600/- but the Grade Pay of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services is given just Rs. 5400/-‘
9. From the above, you can very well see, how shabbily the defense services officers of all the three services alone have been scandalously, shamefully and outrageously desecrated, disgraced, dishonored, besmirched and degraded by the Central Govt. and the bureaucrats.
10. Further, it may be seen that any officers or officials of Central or State Govt. join any service in any post, they start getting their full pay and allowances from the day they join the service. Rather, they are paid their full pay and allowances during their training period, irrespective of duration of their training. In the cases PBOR or Officers of Defense services, they are paid just stipend only during the period of their initial training. How big injustice is being done by the Central Govt. can be well imagined?
11. In view of the foregoing, I make an earnest appeal to the public to send their sincere to the Prime Minister, Defense Minister, Finance Minister and the Govt. to do justice to the Defense Officers. I also make an earnest appeal to all these authorities of the Central Govt. to look into the matter, restore status and dignity and give the defense services officers of all the three services their due as suggested below:-
(a). In the cases of Lt. Generals and Lt. Colonels, as taken up by three Services Chiefs of Defense Services.
(b). In the case of the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 7600/-.
(c). In the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/-.
(d). In the case of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6100/-.
(e). Give full pay, allowances and Grade Pay to all the PBOR or Officers of Defense services, during the period of their initial training as is being done in the case of other Central and State Govt. Officials.
12. If above suggested recommendations are accepted, is is assured that it will have great impact to raise the morale of Defense Services Personnel and attract desired, rather better talents to join Military Services, thus huge vacancies of officers existing since long will be made up. This will prove to be in the best interest of the nation and national security.
Thanks.
Yours truly,
Kishan.
What Harry has quoted about the promotion policy of paramilitary officers is correct and it is from their own website. If required anybody can crosscheck from even the BSF website www.bsf.nic.in. There is no misinformation and these are the facts. Since there is a disparity in the pay band of Lt Cols, the Army is asking the Govt to rectify. The paramilitary can ask for their own dues without changing the Precedence of Ranks of the Army Officers vis-a vis the paramilitary officers that existed prior to Sixth Pay Commission.
ReplyDeleteOnly after the AV Singh committee recommendation, the Army Majors are being considered for promotion to the rank of Lt Cols after 13 years of service.Prior to this recommendation, the Majors were eligible for promotion to Lt Cols only after 16-18 years of service.
Instead of requesting the Govt to downgrade the Rank of LT Cols, the paramilitary forces should ask for some '--------committee' to be set up to look into their grievances on the promotion policy of their forces.
These aremy officers had no other work than claiming superiority. If someone has worked closely with army, he will understand what these officers actually do. They don't even clean/iorn their own uniforms (one PBOR required for that), polish their shoes (one more PBOR required for that), set their aircooled/warm camps in field (only PBORs will have to do this job). Even a urinal with red carpet has to be carried by the PBORs for these officers. They still live in the British era where an Officer was British with PBORs from slave India. These all are the specified duties for PBORs. Besides exploitation of PBORs for personal works is always there. Let them correct these work procedures before asking any superiority and also do some physical work without the help of PBORs then come forward to claim for harsh working environment.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 6:19 PM
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Said:
It is unfortunate that the service chiefs have gone to the extent of telling utter lies that the 6th pay commission has downgraded the rank of the LtCol vis a vis Civilian officers. The Lt Col is always till now has been equated with JAG/JointDirector/ who are in the pay scale of 12000-16500. The 6th pay commission has not made any anomaly. There is clear cut letter of MOD that the rank pay should not be taken for determining the status. Further in 5th PC the Brigadiar's Basic Pay is 16700/= the Rank Pay is 2400 thus adding both the Brigadiar's basic pay is 19100/- whereas the Major General gets only the Basic pay 18400 and no Rank pay. Therefore the services should claim the Brigadiar as Senior officer than Major General since argument is based who draws more i.e the Lt Col's pay (13500+1600=5100) the Director's pay (14300/)based on the basic pay. The services should correct this anomaly before claiming status equalent with civilian counterparts. Therefore it is requested that the service cheiefs should refrain from making such false claims.
My Reply:
1. Lt Cols Scale (as per 5 PC) is 13500-400-17100 (even if we leave out Rank Pay of 1600 for the time being.) Are you in your senses when you say this scale is equal to 12000-16500? In other words, if U were in former scale (I 'm nt sure whether U are a Govt employee or not though!) and U were put in latter, wud U acept it? Because as per U, both are equal! Pl dont make a fool of ur self on this forum!
2. Please post the so called "clear cut" letter of MoD about Rank Pay, for enlightening all of us.
3. There was this anomaly of Brig's pay being higher (along with Rank Pay) than Maj Gen, U are right. Due to this pay fixation anomaly of 5th PC, there were a No of court cases in Punjab and Haryana High Court and as a result, the Govt stepped up the pay of Maj Gens a level above Brigs (including Rank Pay). Therefore this anomaly has been since rectified and now no longer exists. So ur arguement is no longer valid !
I agree with what Ajai says.Slave culture is there in Defence.However, this can not be eradicated as it has grwon so big during the British Raj and Independent Raj.You may get a bullet if you open your mouth or even blink your eyes in front of officers.
ReplyDeleteThanks to the well breed system!
Anonymous Said (11:07 AM)
ReplyDeleteBefore claiming wrong parity of the rank of Lt. Col. vis-a-vis paramilitary ranks, ask a jawan what stars are worn by the Lt. Col.
By any means a Lt. Col. (of 11/13 years service) cannot be equated to the Commandant of at least 25 years of service.
The silence of paramilitary officers and men does not mean they are fools. They will certainly approach the Courts if army officers claim wrong parity vis-a-vis paramilitary ranks.
Few army bloggers cannot change the rank structure and parity of entire Forces!!
11:07 AM
Before approaching the courts, the paramiltary officers should ask their Jawans to check what stars are worn by the IPS officers of equivalent service. Are their counterparts in the IPS wearing the correct ranks with similar service? It is surprising that why Paramilitary officers are not comparing themselves with the IPS officers. An IPS officer becomes IG within 18years of service. They should ask the IGP, why he is not wearing the correct rank of 2 I/C of CRPF as he is equivalent to only 2 i/c as far as number of years of service are concerned. They should also ask the SSP, why he is wearing a Ashoka Emblem with two stars on his shoulders as he is equivalent to a Dy Comdt or even less considering his limited number of years of service. It is a fit case for approaching the courts to claim parity with the IPS.
for latest updates of pay commission
ReplyDeletevisit: www.railwayemployee.blogspot.com
When the SPC will be implemented for autonomous bodies/societies?
ReplyDeleteAny comments from Delhi-based friends?
Why this delay/ step-mother attitude to autonomous bodies?
Please comment..
@ Manisha
ReplyDeleteHi, I think mudslinging comments like those of Ajai should NOT be allowed to publish. Such comments are in bad taste and making such sweeping insinuations on any organisation should NOT be accepted. This person has No bussiness to talk about Army in such a derogatory manner. I'm sure you publish comments after perusing them for relevance and appropriateness after making sure that these do not hurt anybody.
You are requested to delete such malicious and abusive comments.
Thanks and regards,
Harry
@Harry,
ReplyDeleteI published the comment of Mr. Ajai in a good democratic manner, as it refelx opinion of some people about some thing though in small number. I delete/ do not publish many abusive comments when they appear in first place. If some people have other side of the image of the army, whether I and you like it or not, we should listen/read them.
I myself has highest regard for the institution of armed forces. There is no intension of any malaise.
Regards,
Manisha
The gross injustice metted out to the middle ranking offrs of armed forces is protested by defence service chiefs by not accepting the award in the present form, where their parity to civilian counterparts is intentionally dilluted. The entire nation will be celebrating dashahra and diwali with increased salaries and happiness, whereas the defence officers will be having a dark diwali. The issue is being ignored delibrately by UPA government. Where is the media now? Can we afford to have a demoralised defence forces and celebrate Diwali? Imagine the same attitude is shown by the defence forces when they are called upon to do their duty to the peril of their lives? Where are your reputed people, who seem to be the crusaders for the defence cause? Or we presume they take up defence issues for mere TRP!
ReplyDeletePls. see the link: http://confederationhq.blogspot.com/
ReplyDelete@ Manisha
ReplyDeleteHi,
Firstly thnx for your reply! Secodly, I would request you to carry out the newer postings on the blog with increased frequency. This one carries latest posting as on 11 Sep 2008 and today is 23 Sep 2008 and a lot of related developments have already taken place but have not been reported on your blog. In other words, if possible, do update us on daily/once-in-two-days basis.
Thanks and Regards,
Harry
@ Dear All My Fellow Countrymen
ReplyDeletePl read the following piece and decide for yourself:-
Indian ESM Movement against injustice to Defence Forces: SCPC
1. The Govt is Dilly- Dallying on the legitimate demands put forward by the three Chiefs and the Veteran Defence Oganizations. It is not understood as to why the Defence Personnel have been given a raw deal not only in their pay and allowances but also in their status, respect and selfesteem which progressively have been downgraded. There appears to be an intentional ill-treatment of our Military; otherwise, how would one explain that Lt Cols who were drawing Rs 800/- more than their counter parts in civil and para military forces till today will get Rs 14,000/ less after the award of 6th Pay Commission is implemented? Also how DGP rank officers have been placed higher then the Lt Gen? Why One rank One Pension demand has not been accepted? Why the Govt has made an IAS Officer member of the proposed Ex Servicemen commission? The Ex Servicemen commission must have all members from the Ex Servicemen? Why assured second career till the age of 60 years is not given to the Defence Personnel who retire between the ages 35 years to 42 years? Why PBORs are getting far less terminal benefits than their civilian counter parts? There is endless list of legitimate grievances of the Defence Forces. Now, when the three Chiefs have done their duty to project the legitimate demands, the Govt ill advised by bureaucracy is delaying the decision to give the due justice to the Defence Forces.
2. There is need to bring to the notice of the people of India about the injustices done to the Defence Forces and the glaring inadequacies in security both against internal and external threats. Some of the aspects are as under:-
All previous successive Govts have ignored the soldier and hurt his self pride by downgrading his status, respect and self esteem by various means. The present Govt, through the members of 6th Pay Commission has done the damage which has far reaching consequences.
All patriotic Indian should beseech their conscience and put their hands on their hearts and ask themselves. “Is the security of the country getting the attention in term of resources in men and material it deserves? Or are we only paying lip service to our security needs??? All the indicators points towards lowering standards in quality and content.
Are the Defence forces being used as canon fodder as is evidenced from the fact that after the Kabul Blast in the case of IFS officer the PM announced full pay and allowance to the NOK of deceased officer till he would have attained the age of 60 years while no such announcements were made in respect of Brig Mehta. Also no print and electronic media coverage is given to the 2- 3 Defence Personnel sacrificing their lives daily in terrorist/ militant actions in insurgencies while non stop coverage for many hours given to police officers. A sacrifice is a sacrifice and should get similar recognition irrespective of the service.
The strongest pillar of Democracy, the Defence Forces if they crack down there is nothing which can save the nation. It is impossible for a soldier to fight without a national pride instilled in him. The Government of the day on the ill- advice of bureaucracy are doing all that they can to destroy that pride. Second rate incentives attract second rate people, but, the Defence of a country can not be entrusted to second rate persons.
Civil supremacy, all the world over means, “supremacy of elected civilian representatives of the people" and NOT that of the "Civil Servants", who do not represent the ‘people’ but are their "servants". While most of the politicians are well meaning, it is the IAS Babus who thwart their good intentions as they did in 1990 when the then the Prime Minister, Mr VP Singh wanted to sanction "One Rank One Pension.
"Nation which does not ensure Security is doomed to fail". No amount of economic prosperity will bring security for the nation if the nation cannot address its security first. "The solider protects what? Guards whom? A piece of terrain! Barren, inhospitable, worthless? No! for the love of his country and countrymen, his motherland he protects, her citizens he guards, his KARMA he performs, with honour and pride, for your tomorrow he sacrifices his today."
If the matters National Security and functioning of Defence Forces are not resolved on priority, the Nation will creep into pre- 1962 disastrous situation. Anybody saying "We don’t need Defence Forces", is berefit of all knowledge of the Defence Forces. In order to ensure integrity and sovereignty of the country, there is need to strengthen the Defence Forces.
3. In order to intensify our Movement through various action plans in the near future, a Press Conference will be held at Press Club of India New Delhi on 03 Oct 2008 at 12 ‘O’ clock noon. All members of the Press both electronic and print are requested to attend and carry the story in TV Channels/ News papers/ Magazines. Your cooperation to project the right cause of the Defence Forces will go a long way in addressing their legitimate demands.
With Kind Regards,
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen Satbir Singh, SM (Retd)
Vice Chairman Indian ESM Movement
Excellent efforts. all the blogs and such resposes must be sent to the news papers electronic media for information of the public as well as, these must be sent to the Prime Minister, Defense Minister, Finance Minister, Cab Secretary and all other concerned appropriate authorities. to look into the matter seriously and do justice to the Defense Sevices persons.
ReplyDeleteComments on blogs.
ReplyDeleteIt be noted that the defense services persons are not against the IAS officers, Para Military Services officers or any one else. Rather, they are happy to note that all these officers have been given their due.
Should all these civ officers must not realise as to why the defense persons should not be given their due and their status should not be maintained. it seems all these officers are happy, only if the defense services are completely, ignored and neglected. is it their intelligence to use abusive language for the Chiefs and all defense officers. in fact, their blogs must not be published. where ever, it is done, these must be deleted.
It is felt, any one writes such comments against defense forces persons are the traitors and wants the defense forces to remain demoralised thus, weaken the nation. rather such comments are against the national security and such persons must be brought to book.
Comments on blogs.
ReplyDeleteIt be noted that the defense services persons are not against the IAS officers, Para Military Services officers or any one else. Rather, they are happy to note that all these officers have been given their due.
Should all these civ officers must not realise as to why the defense persons should not be given their due and their status should not be maintained. it seems all these officers are happy, only if the defense services are completely, ignored and neglected. is it their intelligence to use abusive language for the Chiefs and all defense officers. in fact, their blogs must not be published. where ever, it is done, these must be deleted.
It is felt, any one writes such comments against defense forces persons are the traitors and wants the defense forces to remain demoralised thus, weaken the nation. rather such comments are against the national security and such persons must be brought to book.
Maj Gen can pl explain what the one rank one pension is and how it is different from the present norm of linking it withthe last basic drawn
ReplyDeleteSCPC: A Soldiers Lament to the President
ReplyDeleteWhile we awaited the pay commission bounty
The IAS got there first
and now, President Aunty
We have no choice but to be blunt
We are third class citizens,
though manning the front
The bureaucrats who decide things for us
Have truly shown their animus
And we who defend our dear nation
Have again been shown our lower station.
When the seventh pay commission comes around
We will no doubt lose more ground
Then Colonels would equal civilian clerks
In salary, status and other perks
Generals will wait on worn out chairs
Outside IAS Officers' lairs.
A once proud service is now so degraded
That though their uniforms still be braided
They are demoralised and wait to retire
And then take up their pens to fire
At those they served all their life
In times of peace and in times of strife.
The lesson from this, our children we tell
Is that, if in life you want to do well
And this, I am sure, every soldier endorses
Do not ever join the forces.
Just become a doctor or a pleader
Perhaps, even better, a political leader
Or an IAS officer, with his red light
Why face the enemy, why risk a fight
When the nation you guard
does not value you much
And treats you merely like a handy crutch
To support the government in civil disorder
Or when the enemy threatens the border
But when the time comes to share the pie
They get all antsy and ask - why???
So Madam President, hear us out
A change is going to come about
And we, the most courageous of all
Will soon be replaced by the petty and small
Alas, your government would be squarely to blame
For this avoidable national shame.
Kishore Asthana
REMOVAL OF DISPARITIES OF DEFENSE PERSONNEL.
ReplyDelete1. It may be noted that the defense services persons, while putting across their grievances while quoting pay parities, they never mean any thing against the IAS officers, Para Military Services officers or any one else. Rather, they are happy to note that all these officers have been given their legitimate due for which they are fully satisfied.
2. It is needless to emphasize that the financial benefits to the defense persons definitely have to be kept in mind. This is emphatically important considering their service conditions and low retirement age. However, may they be officers or PBOR, their prestige, dignity and honor is rather that of more importance, which must not be compromised, destroyed, degraded and tarnished as has been done in the notified 6th Pay Commission Report. This statement is evident from the fact that the seniority and status of all the Govt. employees will be determined by the Grade Pay of all the officials in accordance with the 6th pay commission report.
3. Nevertheless, the three Chiefs of Defense Services have pointed out the Pay Parities with vivid disparities in the Gde. Pay of some of the defense officers of the rank of Lt. Cols., Lt. Gens. and equivalent ranks of all three services, especially in comparison to IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. It has been categorically pointed out by the three Chiefs of Defense Services, the proposed pay parities will have adverse effects during the joint operations.
4. With due apology, this is to point out that in addition to the above disparities, there are still number of more grave disparities in the cases of officers of the ranks of Majors, captains and Lieutenants, and equivalent ranks of all three services as well as trainees of these services.
5. You may kindly see that the pre-revised scales of pay of civil services officers falling in S-21, S-22, and S-23 and equivalent posts of officers of Para Military Forces were much less then the pay scale of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services. Irrespective of this fact; in accordance with the 6th pa commission report notifications, the Civilian Officers of the categories mentioned ibid are given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-, where as all officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only. Further, the Chief Nursing Officers of Para Military Services, the Principals of schools, Education Officers, Assistant Directors and Managers, whose pre-revised scales were 10000-15200; all of them have now been given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-, whereas, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing much higher pay scale than them, have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
6. The degradation of Defense Services Officers does not end here itself. If you peruse the VI CPC report and notifications thereto. You will see that the ‘Vice Principal Grade I’ and Post Graduate Teacher Grade I of schools whose pre-revised scale was 8000-13200 are now given the Grade Pay of Rs. 6600/-, but in the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, whose pre-revised pay was much higher than the officials mentioned above are given Grade Pay of 6100/- only. Likewise, the pre-revised pay scale of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services was starting from Rs 8250/ which is more than the officials mentioned ibid, their Grade Pay is given just Rs. 5400/- only.
7. It is emphatically and forcefully verbalized that all the Pay Bands and Grade pay given to the Defense Officers should be made applicable to them after rendering the same period of service as that is applicable to the IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. There must not be any discrimination in this regard.
8. Further, it may be seen that when any officers or officials of Central or State Govt. join any service in any post, they start getting their full pay and allowances from the day they join the service. Their entire service is counted for increments, promotions and retirement from the first very day. They are paid their full pay and allowances and all other benefits of service during their training period, irrespective of duration of their training. Contrary to this, the Officers and PBOR of Defense services are paid just stipend only during the period of their initial training. Also, this period is not counted for giving increments, promotions and retirement. Such a big discrimination and injustice must not be done to the defense services personnel alone.
9. The 6th Pay Commission and the Govt. has very kindly recommended and accepted the prolonged and long standing/awaited demand of Military Service Pay (‘MSP’) of defense personnel. But, it is highly unjustified as to why the MSP should not be applicable w. e. f. the day, the 6th pay commission is effective. Were the soldiers not the part of defense forces and/or they have not been performing their duties from 1 Jan 2006 onward? If they are legitimate part of defense forces and have been performing their duties since 1 Jan 2006 and the 6th Pay commission is since effective from 1 Jan 2006, the MSP must be given to them w.e.f that very date and the arrears whatever may be due, should be paid accordingly.
10. Further, Military Service Pay is since the Pay, it is highly illogical not to consider it to calculate dearness allowance and increments on this pay. It may be noted that the Central Govt. has agreed to pay dearness allowance on the Transport Allowance. It is surprising to note that when the tpt. allowance is an allowance and not the pay, the dearness allowance is permitted on it, but the MSP is the Pay, yet, it is not considered for the purpose. Hence, the Govt. must reconsider its decision to pay dearness allowance on MSP as well as, it must be included to calculate increments w.e.f. 01 Jan 2006 please.
11. One Rank One-Pension issue has been long outstanding. This matter is most judicious and deserving since the service personnel including officers retire at a very early age and none of them finds any avenues for discharging their entire responsibilities and living after their retirement. They are totally dependent on their pension only.
12. At the time of implementation of pay commission report, there occurs a big disparity in the pension of present and previously retired ex-service persons retired from the same rank. The pension of presently retired person is fixed based on 50% of last 10 months average pay after rendering total period of service by him. In the case of persons retired before the implementation of pay commission report, their pension is re-fixed based on minimum of the new pay scale of the rank/post from which they retired, irrespective of any amount of period of service they had rendered before their retirement. The entire period of service they rendered before their retirement is completely ignored. Consequently, there becomes a wide gap of eligibility of pension between the present/future and previously retired persons, though in both cases, they retired or will retire from the same rank. This is absolutely in contravention to the Apex Court’s recent decision. Considering this fact as well as Apex court judgement, the authorities must bear in mind the rank and period of rendered service while re-fixing the pension of all persons who retired before implementation of pay commission report. In accordance with this analogy, the authorities must consider the pensionable pay of a serving person after the period of service that was rendered by a retired person for re-fixing his pension on implementation of any pay commission report. If pension is ever re-fixed against this principle, it will be contrary to the Apex Court judgement.
13. Previously, the defense service officers, who could not get selection grade rank of Lt. Col and equivalents rank; they used to get this rank after rendering 21 years of service. Such officers were denied rank pay of Lt. Col and their pension was fixed without including the rank pay of this rank. It is of utmost importance to note that presently, all officers of defense services attain the rank of time scale Lt. Col after rendering 13 years of service, and they are entitled full pension, considering their basic pay and rank pay. Further, after implementation of sixth pay commission report, they will get their full pension after including running pay of applicable “band pay, grade pay and MSP’. The previously retired officers since attain the rank in question after 21 years and present ones, get this rank after 13 years, there must not be any discrimination in the past and present officers of the rank of Lt. Col. while fixing/re-fixing the pension in either case.
14. The present minimum service required for officers to be eligible for pension is 20 years. The short service commissioned officers, who are asked to leave service after 10/14 years, are not eligible for pension. The pension for such officers should be considered, though it may not be full pension as is applicable for the officers who retire after rendering 20 years or more service. It can be commensurately less in comparison to minimum 20 years requirement. However, such short commissioned officers, who voluntarily seek retirement after stipulated period or before 20 years may not be considered for this purpose.
15. In view of the foregoing, a most sincere and earnest appeal is made to the Prime Minister, External Affairs minister, who is the Chairman of special review committee for the purpose, Defense Minister, Finance Minister and all other authorities to do justice to the Defense Officers and PBOR of all three services to look into the matter judiciously, restore their status and dignity and give them their due as suggested below:-
(a). In the cases of Lt. Generals, Lt. Colonels and PBOR, as taken up by the Chiefs of three Defense Services.
(b). In the case of the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 7600/- be given.
(c). In the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- be given.
(d). In the case of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6100/- be given.
(e). Give full pay, allowances and Grade Pay to all the Officers and PBOR of Defense services during the period of their initial training as is being done in the case of other Central and State Govt. Officials.
(f). The Pay Bands and Grade pay given to the Defense Officers should be made applicable after rendering the same period of service as that is applicable to the IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. There must not be any discrimination in this regard.
(g). In accordance with Hon’ able Apex Court’s recent decision; the Govt. must bear in mind to ensure to fix the pension of officers previously retired or retiring hereafter in the same rank of Lt Col. may it be time scale or previous selection grade or any other same rank without any discrimination.
(h). The short service commissioned officers, who are asked to leave service after rendering 10/14 service years, be made eligible for pension, which may be commensurately less in comparison to 20 years.
(i). Considering the fact explained at Para 12 above as well as recent Apex Court judgement, the authorities must bear in mind the rank and period of rendered service while re-fixing the pension of all persons who retired before implementation of pay commission report. In accordance with this analogy, the authorities must consider total pensionable pay of a serving person after the period of service that was rendered by a retired person for re-fixing every retired person’s pension on implementation of any pay commission report.
17. If suggestions above are accepted, it is assured that it will have great impact to raise the morale of Defense Services Personnel and attract desired, rather better talents to join Military Services, thus huge vacancies of officers, existing since long, will be made up. This will prove to be in the best interest of the nation and national security.
Thanks.
Yours truly,
Jassu
SEE THIS
ReplyDeleteSIXTH PAY COMMISSION AND INJUSTICE TO DEFENCE SERVICES!
There is a rumour buzz that three defence chiefs have resigned and they are waiting for the PM to return from his TRYST-WITH-NUCLEAR DEAL-TRIP on October 01, 2008. Would the Government be able to assert itself over its bureaucracy?
There were gross anamolies in the 6th pay commission, proposals for defence services, approved by the government. There was noise by defence services but no one heard. IAS lobby overruled the objections. Not only this,the bureaucrats had further downgraded the armed forces in pay scale and upgraded their own cadre in lieu.
The UPA government is run by the IAS Lobby. Not that NDA was any better. The Ministers, always are puppets in the hands of these manipulating bureaucrats. They cleverly pass the blame of their mismanagement and abuse to the vulnerable politicians.
How sad, that the government did not pay attention to the grievances of the armed forces despite the 'Chiefs' meeting the PM? It is, now, rumoured that all three CHIEFS of Navy, Airforce and Army, allegedly submitted their resignations. In panic, the Government has appointed a ministerial group now to look into the grievances.
It is rumoured if the ministerial group does not do the desired justice the three chiefs would take their pension and go home. They will be followed by the ARMY COMMANDERS and their EQUIVALENT in the NAVY and AIRFORCE--the second echelon of heirarchy in the defence services.
This is the first time such a stage has come. Everyone in this country is blaming the politicians for CORRUPTION and OTHER ILLS OF GOVERNANCE, BUT ACTUALLY IT IS THE BUREAUCRACY and IAS LOBBY. They only have corrupted the politicians and policemen. They have been doing some acts over the last two decades to corrupt the armed forces, also. NO DOUBTS, THEY ARE SUCCEEDING. Do away with IAS cadre, if you want INDIA to be CORRUPTION FREE and further DEVELOPING. Have US system of administration, where the senior bureaucrats change with the change in the PRESIDENtT. You can have the clerical cadre as permanent.
It is sad the armed forces have been pushed to this corner but what could the senior officers do? Their voices were unheard because of overwhelming bureaucratic noise. The defence chiefs are answerable to men they command, who are raising these queries. A soldier is no more an illiterate goof. I hope the people realise the repercussions of SENIOR OFFICERS OF DEFENCE SERVICES RESIGNING ENMASSE ! Will there be army to protect your nationhood?
God save India, if rumour is true! A fine institute of INDIANESS is disintegrating, courtesy BUREUCRACY-POLITICIAN Nexus. AMEN!
http://newshopper.sulekha.com/topic/sixth-pay-commission/blogs/2008/09/three-defence-services-chiefs-resigning.htm
What is the paramilitary trying to obtain parity with the military for? This is all the IAS's doing. Divide and rule. Create a situation where Armys parity with Paramilitary is threatened so that army is too busy fighting for parity with paramil to bother with retaining parity with IAS. PAramilitary should ask why they are officered by the IPS. What qualification does a IPS officer with 14 years of service have to be a paramilitary DIG? With 16 years service to be a IGP?
ReplyDeleteIt is funny as well ridiculous to see so many blogs of Army, paramilitary and civilians. I fail to understand what is this comparison all about? Can unequals be compared? Army or paramilitary is not equivalent to civil services and vice versa. It is amazing to see coutrymen resorting to lower each one's status. I have no hesitation to say that 75% of government servants in any stream are there by default and rest 25% are there with some considerations. It is really healthy to see the corporate world which is progressing leaps and bonds unlike Army and civil servants which have ulterior motives to safeguard their interests. Who is responsible for Kargil- countrymen, taxpayers or Army? Who was responsible for the Debacle of 1962-an eminent Army Officer of that time says Indian Army was busy in three Fs at that time- Fun, Frolic and f...... ultimately country paid the price. Every debacle is followed by a committee where our Armed Forces cleverly make every one foolish and get away with enormous facilities. Which service has free ration, free services in terms of housing, orderlies, furnished accomodation, enhanced AL and CL besides uniform grants, MSP and other inherent and intangilbe things which out side world can not see. Can any one quantify patriotism? Can army claim that they are more patriotic vis-a-vis any other countrymen? They need to come out of the shell. While we must take pride in our posterity we must not shut our eyes to the changing scenarios. Is Armed Forces of the country above every thing. Why corruption is so rampart there. Why are they not able to come out of the shell to respect individuality of Women Officers in Forces. Have any one heard of cases likes of Maj Gen Lal summerily dismissed for his chivalourous act?
ReplyDeleteWhy Armed Forces and army are not able to digest the fact that their Lt Col is a company commander by default despite rendering 13 years of service . The Commandant of Paramilitary force exercise command over 1200 personnel. They for their convenience are bent upon to define and redefine Para military forces. When it suits their interest they call BSF, ITBP, CRPF and CISF as Paramilitary forces otherwise for them it is the Assam Rifle which is Paramilitary Force. Come on sentinels of this country don't contradic your own standards. The Second-in-command of a Paramilitary unit is the de facto Bn Commander of tomorrow. So what is the fuss. Army prople always talk about their status forgetting that this is not an imperailisitic Army of yeaster years. End of the day they fail to cope up with society at large and post reitrement remain confined to contonment life. The cantt is not the end. You please sort out your own Inter Arms rivalry and define Inter Force role else country is heading for a big trouble.
Country cannot run without IAS and IPS. Because they serve their masters, but so do the top brass of Armed Forces for their post retirement benifits. Thank God our Armed Forces are not involved in active duty in area like Afghanistan or Iraq otherwise they would have refused to fight. While saying so I don't want to discredit 90 % of Army personnel who are hard core professional and well contended. It is only people of urban India who are bent upon to create euphoria of disparity. And by the way so called deficiency of Officers in Army can also be attributed to the fact they don't want to fill up the slot other wise the oft reapeted slang of vacancy will loose its luster and they cannot prove their importance. How can they clamour then if vacancy are filled. I know there will be voceferous reaction from Army men on my blog but my dear friend mirror show you your own immage whether you like it or not.
Can any one deny the fact that Paramilitary forces are the backbone of the country both for internal security as well as the sentinel of the borders. They never say that give us more than Army. They never clamour against any facility extended to Army. Then why a small group with in Armed Forces is trying to deprive them of what they deserve. The protocol of 1939 and 1966 cannot be considered in present scenerio. At that time Captain was commanding a Company and Lt Col were Commanding a Bn. If dilution has been there in rank structure why should there be no dilution in the protocol.
I welcome disussion on this issue. Inputs supported by logic are also welcome. Those who can not face themselves in the mirror should stop talking. I have the experince of Armed forces, PMF and Civil service.
Why does the blogger does not come forward to post such foolish blogs. have the courage and face public. the public thinks, any one write such blogs against army. they are enemies of the nation, rather trators and not worth of salt eating of the nation. yet God bless him and others like him
ReplyDeleteDentan seems to have his comcepts somewhat wrong. If he imagines that by impugning the dignity of the armed forces he is doing anyone a service, he is mistaken. He doesnt seem to know much about service life either. If he is under the impression that free ration is a faalthu fund facility, he should consider that when one is posted in a forward post in Arunachal Pradesh at 15000ft, it is a bit difficult to walk up to a grocery shop to do ones shopping. The facilities are completely justified. How can anyone compare a Major in a field area with a Additional District Magistrate? While the one has bullets flying around him and has to relieve himself in the open, the other has government car, house, servants, and the entire district administration at his feet. At least give the forces some compensation. The IAS is not the government, much though it likes to imagine itself to be. The armed forces are accountable to the cabinet, and through the cabinet, to parliament, and through them, to the people. Not to a bunch of IAS office boys whose service history descends from pre independence Tahsildars.
ReplyDeleteFriend! none of the other services criticise any one. Rather there is respect whic is duly reciprocated. Army or Armed forces are dignified services well matured enough to understand perils of continuous tirade either against CPMFs or civil servants. Has any of these services ever said in media or any other platform that our Armed Forceas are not doing work? A district magistrate cannot run his Office at 15000' either at Arunachal or in Uttarakhand. Similarly Armed Forces need battle field to fight which cannot be airconditioned. Why other service should be taunted and treated as undignified? For God sake don't have false ego which generate only negativity towards others.
ReplyDeleteMy dear anonymous firend ! your outburst is on expected lines. I still put this question can you quantify patriotism? May you know the Chetwood credo.
As rgards to Aditya I would say please respect others if you want to be respected. Always finding faults with others with this premise that I, Me AND My self is always right are the sure signs of downfall. I and my perception may not be near to reality but that does not mean that we loose respect to each other or we can,t talk or walk together.
hi guys! it pains me to see the levels to which one descends to. pls differ with dignity. be progressive and not regressive.
ReplyDeleteI read the comments and arguments of Dentan, Aditya, Anonymous and again Dentan.
ReplyDeleteMr Dentan tries to prove with his flowery language (in his 12:49 PM blog)that he is adopting a balanced,polished and mature view on the entire issue of pay commission anomalies. If he reads his earlier comments on armed forces(12:34 PM blog)he would be ashamed of himself and would have no place to hide for making such irresponsible comments. Now (in his 12:49 blog)if he makes a saintly and philosophical comments that "Why other service should be taunted and treated as undignified? For God's sake don't have false ego which generate only negativity towards others." is not only indigestible but only shows his double standards. Mr Dentan, Dont't make such high flying comments when you cannot follow even 1% of what you have advised others to do. Whether you like it or not, the readers of this blog will know who is what. Thanks for your unsolicited advice which is of course not applicable to you my dear Dentan.
To drown the sound of sanity in the cacophony of interpertation and misinterpertation is not matching quality of a fighter. Why the mirror showing your real reflection be smashed with a bullet instead of improving your appearance. This remind me of a joke, which goes like this-"A Negro entered into the gallary of paintings. After observing two three paintings he suddenly halted in front of a so called painting and called the organiser-is this what you call a good painting worth to be kept is such good shows. The organiser politely said" but I am sorry sir, infront of you is a mirror"
ReplyDeleteI don't know how and why real but harsh facts of history must be burried under dusty carpets as some of my friends responding to blogs having passionating concern to Armed Forces. Diplomacy is the tool of maturity not authority. If some one write as an anonymous or with real identity, it is a typical mentality to say ill about others. Any how forget about it, concentrate on real issue of getting so called better status and parity. Good luck
Dear anonymous, i happened to read the bolg so late, and was surprised at the naivety of the same.
ReplyDeleteWhere r the PMF when there is need for them during natural calamities, or law & order situation. the issue of pay is pay a person who is superior. i still do not say Paramilitary are inferior. but every one has to understand the armed forces are superior. every time things go bad or out of everyones control i do not think we call the paramilitary. every one abuses the system blatantly because they have the confidence that the armed forces are there to look after if things really go wrong. every one can form associations but the armed forces were prohibited from it. why?
i did not want to use such comparision but the shit flying around made me do this. it is immaterial as to the number of years for a rank, the armed forces are just asking to pay them for the restrictions placed on them. let us list them out.
1. cannot quit when he wants - it is the prerogative of the president. there are scores of applications lined up but MoD has released only 650 vacancies for the year.
2. has to live the feeling that there is no one behind him if he fails. hence has to take greater risks. let me know the number of paramilitary officers killed fighting militants. donot include the names of people killed in mine blast or firing on the post by militants, or ambushed while going in the convoy. only people who were killed fighting. don't be surprised if u don't even find names in two digits.
3. if he ever raises his voice against any injustice done to him, it is immediately termed as revolt, the way u r doing it now.
there is no emotional bullshit in this request for restoring pay parity. first since their pay was higher before pay commission it shud be higher now. also the MSP is not being paid for conditions in field. it is being paid for accepting the restrictions which are bordering on the inhuman.
how i wish the government would let officers who want to leave the forces leave. it would definitely be a great day for the Indian Nation. in a few years u would find the army deployed for anti naxal operations, why? are the paramilitary forces not competent enough to deal with 303 and local explosive devices. what r u taking ur pay for??? i think the paramilitary pay shud be reduced based on their output.
It's the Honour of the Uniform
ReplyDeleteLetter to the editor of the Indian Express
Dear Mr. Shekhar Gupta,
While your reluctant apology was at best confusing, your tom-tomming the
'soldier's paper' surely cut a sorry figure. I only wish that along the
details of generous donations that your employees have made in memory of
the fallen, you also might have informed the reader of the sons and
daughters of IE employees who have joined the Nation's Armed Forces. Anyway,
I write to you assuming that you still believe you are a 'soldier's paper'.
I must admit that I am a die hard fan of the genre of reporting that your
paper always stands for.
I am sure the Chiefs understood the import of the option of refusing a
cabinet decision before exercising that option including the permanent
damage to the forces, unprecedented as it was. Actually, I believe they were
indeed thinking of the future when they took the decision! Your analysis of
the consequences of not stirring the political executive, I am afraid, was
less than enthusiastic, if at all.
I also believe the Chiefs' protest is purely for equivalence and status.
Money is something, most are ashamed to even suggest, let alone protest since
bargaining is still considered 'un-officer like'. Status on the other hand
is something for which they may probably do more than merely mildly protest.
There are valid reasons for this seemingly peculiar and 'undisciplined'
behavior.
I will try to explain the centrality of the idea of izzat - that the English
word 'honour' approximates. To help me in this endeavour, you may like to
imagine having been asked to lead your employees to their probable deaths. I
believe the talk of 'merely a point of order' in 'It's the uniform' must not
be trivialized. And while I have no intention of sounding alarmist, I
recount an old episode to try to explain the bottom line of professional
soldiering.
Towards the end of the '65 stalemate in the Lahore Sector, a correspondent
happened to ask the Commanding Officer (CO) of 3 JAT, a unit which had just
got the better of a Pakistani battalion in a bloody battle (3 JAT lost 5
officers and 90 men on the night of 21/22 Sep while the Pak battalion lost
about 300 dead and rest captured including their CO), as to what made the
men fight such a gruesome battle? The correspondent, eagerly, without
waiting for an answer hastily added that it must have been the love of their
country. Lt Col Desmond Hayde, the CO, pointing to his No 2, said, 'You see
Major Shekhawat? He fights because he holds nothing dearer than the respect and standing he enjoys in the eyes of his men, family, and community back home. His fear of losing that standing overcomes his fear of death. The men, of course, fight because Major Shekhawat fights.'
The idea, at the core, is therefore rather simple. You place the leader at
such a pedestal that losing that place is all that he fears. The followers
follow because they see the 'highly placed fellow' fighting fearlessly
(seemingly, at least).
Now, if you belittle his protests of his degradation of status (and worse -
tell him that he is getting paid more than he deserves, worse still - egg
him on that he has lost discipline and honour for having the temerity to
even protest his degradation, worst of all - deny him any channel and means
to protest), then, you are in effect directly and surely denuding the
fighting capability of the nation's Armed Forces. There is no dearth of
lecherous (and stronger than India) countries in the dog eat dog world.
Mr. Gupta, I implore you do two things.
1. Read the Chetwode Motto carefully.
'The safety, honour and welfare of your country come first, always and every
time.
The honour, welfare and comfort of the men you command come next.
Your own ease, comfort and safety come last, Always and every time.'
Note that the honour of the men comes next to the Nation itself and within
the priorities of the men, honour comes before welfare or comfort. Note that
the honour of the Gentlemen Cadet being commissioned doesn't figure anywhere
in the motto. So where is the leader's honour? The motto itself, of course!
Is his honour divided between the Nation's and that of his men? Who fights
for his honour? I like to think that people like you, the Cabinet and the
people of this country fight for the military leader's honor.
2. Please read and assess for yourself the import of what successive pay
commissions have done to that honor? Can we expect some genuine research
from a paper famous for it? Can we expect the IE to kick-off a genuine
national debate instead of allowing lowly lobbyists to dangerously
sensationalize the limited space in print and TV?
With best wishes and a Happy Diwali.
Regards,
Armed Forces
mom i visited your blog. very nice.keep it up.
ReplyDeleteORs salary in the indian armed forces is less than the DA of cl 1 & cl2 officers. This difference had not justified in 6 pay commission
ReplyDeleteThe comparison in between Army and Paramilitary personnel's pay should not be in such blogs.Brother don't quarrel like two cat. Otherwise Monkey will surely eat your food and earlier you are foolish , in present the same and in future no change if you did not fight with government siting member of 7th CPC through your channel mind it . This is suggestion . I am true & confident we not acheve the goal and pay commission is over
ReplyDelete